"Twice Shy"

[Mike]

This is the official review thread for the 14th episode of the season. Our UK friends have already seen it and I encourage them to vote and post a word or two on what they thought.

For those itching to get a glimpse of what the Brits have already seen, check out this Image Gallery.

http://www.farscapeworld.com/gallery/10414.shtml

[an0n]

Ah. That.

It wasn't that good of an episode. Didn't really tie in with anything and seemed kinda.......I dunno, forced. Against the flow of the series somehow.

[Spiller]

...but the ending!!!

i thought it was a good episode, it worked as a stand-alone funny/crazy ep, yet also had some small bits in there of the continuing story arc, and good character work :) (e.g. the ending).

[McC]

I'm with Spiller on this one ;)

THE ENDING ROCKED!!!!! :D :D :D :D

*happy dance*

The rest of the ep was a bit bizarre, though. It's like I've said to my folks and some of the other people around -- this was a transition ep between the Earth arc and the rest of the season, I think. Next week should renew the pursuit of the actual arc of the season.

But, I have to say...WOOOOOOO! John and Aeryn back together! *happy dance x2*

[McC]

After watching the ep a second time, I think it earned a 9. While the main plot was kind contrived, it did provide an excellent grounds for the viewers to see what the characters would be like without their respective major traits. This was a brilliant concept and played out really well. Acting was great across the board -- par for the course ;) Additionally, although it may not quite seem like it yet, we got a big bombshell dropped in our lap with the whole Scorpius situation. It also explains why John has been avoiding Aeryn, and they are finally back together! *happy da--* Right, sorry :D Anyway, I was considering a 7 or 8, but when I went back and realized what the episode was really doing, instead of looking at the surface presentation, I decided that it definitely earned a 9. I want to give it a 10 for the ending alone, but the rest of the episode doesn't quite justify that.

Next week looks like another fantastic character ep (aren't these all?), this time for D'Argo. Looking forward to it!

As an aside, until someone comes forward and at least explains their logic for their low votes (I don't care that you vote low, whoever you are, just that you don't even explain it), I'm not going to include them in the averages for this episode onward. :no:

[Proximo]

I enjoyed that episode. First seeing them acting like hyper version of themselves, then like their complete opposites, it was really fun. The only thing I don't really understand is why a giant spider would do that... but then this is Farscape. You don't need to understand. :D

Ah well, lesse.. only a few moure quid and I'm ready to star buuying th dvd sets. Me happy.

[Captain Zefram Mann]

Originally posted by McC
As an aside, until someone comes forward and at least explains their logic for their low votes (I don't care that you vote low, whoever you are, just that you don't even explain it), I'm not going to include them in the averages for this episode onward. :no:

I bet it was Rick Berman. :D

[farscaper]

Originally posted by McC
As an aside, until someone comes forward and at least explains their logic for their low votes (I don't care that you vote low, whoever you are, just that you don't even explain it), I'm not going to include them in the averages for this episode onward. :no:

So you don't count votes you don't like? That's cheap.:no:

The last two minutes were excellent. But it could have been tacked on to any episode.

The villian was horrible. Very poorly thought out. And she/it had very convenient powers that seemed sort of thrown together. I may have missed it, but I never saw any shot of the girl morphing into the spider.That was needed. The episode could be thrown away in terms of the farscape overall storyline. Infact I wish it would have been.

it wasn't fun to watch. I probably should have voted lower. Its only a good episode if you are so into this show you will watch practically anything farscape.

No way will this appeal to any new viewers.

Its too late to reshoot the remaining episodes now. But it harms farscape if the remaining stories are hard for people to get into this who haven't watched every episode.

[farscaper]

btw- I too am very glad to see Johnnie boy make up with Erin. Also its nice to see Scorp's motives outlined better. Though I don't understand why they Criton don't just shove him out the airlock.

[Captain Zefram Mann]

Originally posted by farscaper
So you don't count votes you don't like? That's cheap.

So is giving an ep a low rating without at least backing it up with a reason. How many times have you voted without contributing anything to any kind of discussion here?

Originally posted by farscaper Also its nice to see Scorp's motives outlined better. Though I don't understand why they Criton don't just shove him out the airlock.

Because it's way better to go with the devil you know than the one you don't. They know more about Scorpius than Commandant Cleavage. The one who does know the most about her is... yup, you guessed it. Scorpy.

An alliance, even a temporary one, makes sense when you consider all that.

[farscaper]

Originally posted by Captain Zefram Mann


So is giving an ep a low rating without at least backing it up with a reason. How many times have you voted without contributing anything to any kind of discussion here?


once.

and I probably won't again. I see a bias here against people who don't drool over every farscape episode.

I don't have to vindicate myself for not liking an episode.

[Arrghman]

Originally posted by farscaper


once.

and I probably won't again. I see a bias here against people who don't drool over every farscape episode.

I don't have to vindicate myself for not liking an episode.

I think there's been a bit of a misunderstanding here.

For the past year or so, we keep getting someone who votes much much lower then everyone else for each episode without an explanation why. I personally find this particularly annoying because I'd just like to know why this person hasn't liked any of the eps... but that's another issue.


...moving on, I wasn't partciularly enthralled with the spider-lady either, although not to the point where I thought it was bad... just... less good compared to what it could have been.

Actually, I liked how someone over at SF.com described this episode... the writers were point with their left hand "look over there! look! giant spider!" and once they had us distracted, gave us a right hook with aeryn and john.

[Mike]

I really enjoyed this episode. As I've mentioned before, I've started looking at each episode with two different perspectives. One perspective is that of a non-fan, who is just tunning in and looking for entertainment. The other perspective is that of the fan. As a fan, this episode seemed a little off-track, but there was quite a bit there to continue the ongoing story that courses prevelently through the entire series. As everybody has said, the ending was fantastic. It was enough to give me goosebumps, it was so slickly done. Browder and Black are fantastic actors, they really work with each other and their relationship looks ABSOLUTELY genuine.

Now, from the non-fan perspective, I would say this episode had far FAR more appeal than the typical Farscape episode. There are two reasons I say this, the first is the self-contained sci-fi story. Compared to recent Trek fair, I thought this was a fun and engaging piece of sci-fi. Sure, it's a 'familiar' story, but it's told in a sharper and 'edgier' fashion. As is also the case in GOOD Star Trek, the story is tool used to explore characters. This wasn't a simple story about a big bad spider, it was a story about identifying the crew's defining traits. I think this could have been handled in a more substantial fashion, but I'm not the writer. The second reason I think episode was good for the non-fan is the simple and effecitve use of the large cast of characters. Everybody had their time in the spot light, and the story very bluntly tells us their defining characteristics. So this episode is somewhat of a primer to the cast of characters.

Overall, I gave it a 7. For me, that's a high score, I never give any episode a 10, that is reserved for 'perfection'. I rarely encounter anything I would categorize as perfection.

About the polls, I recommend we let them stand as are. We're inviting trouble if we start eliminating votes on account of suspicions.

[Krystal]

I enjoy this episode, it have fun moments. I love specially D'argo discussion with Rygel and John trying to get in the middle. Also love Chiana trying to get D'argo angry to prove that they were different. Lol! That was hilarious. But the best of the episode have to be Aeryn and John, it was so good to see this two together again and they way they get there was cool to see. :)

Krystal :cool:

[McC]

Originally posted by farscaper
I don't have to vindicate myself for not liking an episode.

No, you don't. And we're not asking you to persuade us that your vote is correct, either. But when everyone else is voting high, and you come and vote really low, we'd like to hear a bit of justification for that. How do we know you're not just a troll out to throw off the vote? We don't (well, we didn't). You could easily have been someone else on the board with a grudge against one of the people here. That's why I wanted to know -- not because it bothers me that you thought low of an episode. You're entitled to your opinion, no matter how much I or anyone else disagrees with it. But we're entitled to know that you actually hold the opinion and aren't just being a pain in the neck.

As such, your vote will now stand.

[Rhade]

Originally posted by Mike
As a fan, this episode seemed a little off-track, but there was quite a bit there to continue the ongoing story that courses prevelently through the entire series. As everybody has said, the ending was fantastic. It was enough to give me goosebumps, it was so slickly done. Browder and Black are fantastic actors, they really work with each other and their relationship looks ABSOLUTELY genuine.

Now, from the non-fan perspective, I would say this episode had far FAR more appeal than the typical Farscape episode. There are two reasons I say this, the first is the self-contained sci-fi story.

My thoughts exactly. In the back of my mind I've been concerned that the previous 2 episodes, "Kansas" and "Terra Firma," were a little too "in" and that a non-scaper wouldn't have known quite what to make of them. From that perspective, "Twice Shy" definitely benefitted from a more self-contained story that was hopefully more accessible to the casual viewer.

And for the non-casual viewer, the ending just blew me away! Just when you're getting used to the idea of Scorpy being around as part of the crew, the writers come back and jab you with that. Reminding you that Scorpy is still *not* to be trusted.

I voted this one an 8 on your poll.

Rhade

[Mike]

Hiya Rhade, welcome aboard! I'm glad you joined us here.

I especially like Rhade for agreeing with me. I LOVE people who agree with me ;).

In regards to voting, we have seen off-kilter scores in nearly every poll, yet no sign of comment in regards to negative feelings. I strongly believe in opposing viewpoints, it creates the most active and interesting discussion. Please feel free to intervene in our love fest from time to time ;).

[Vertigo1]

Personally, I'd give it an 8 out of 10.

It was setup like your typical Farscape episode. Crew goofing off, or just being 'themselves' with a wierd alien critter onboard mucking with the crew. (am I the only one that found this very similar to the season 2 episode "Beware of Dog" with a little "Crackers Don't Matter" thrown in for good measure?) The ending was a big shocker since Scorpy was setup as going the way that Crais did, from an evel sadistic bastard to a semi-nice guy, and now he's starting to revert back to his old self again.

[McC]

They actually allude to this ;) D'Argo remarks that Chiana is the one that brough the Vork aboard (Vork being the creature in "Beware of Dog"). And I think he also mentions T'ralltixx as well.

[Vertigo1]

Originally posted by farscaper
I don't have to vindicate myself for not liking an episode.

I think you're taking things the wrong way bro. We're not flaming you for your low vote. We just don't take kindly to people voting very low for an ep and not justifying it.

Think of it this way: Say I posted an animation that I had worked very hard on for a long time, and someone voted for a very low score without justifying their reason. Given that situation, don't you think its understandable that I'd be very angry over it?

We understand that you have your own opinion on the show, and respect it. We just ask that you post WHY you voted for whatever score you gave an episode, thats all.

[farscaper]

Originally posted by Vertigo1


I think you're taking things the wrong way bro. We're not flaming you for your low vote. We just don't take kindly to people voting very low for an ep and not justifying it.

Think of it this way: Say I posted an animation that I had worked very hard on for a long time, and someone voted for a very low score without justifying their reason. Given that situation, don't you think its understandable that I'd be very angry over it?

We understand that you have your own opinion on the show, and respect it. We just ask that you post WHY you voted for whatever score you gave an episode, thats all.

That's MY point! Again many of you say I have to JUSTIFY my opinions. When no one here would give the same attitude, the same resentment, if I had voted HIGHER than the average.

And I like farscape! I just thought this wasn't as good compared to what I've seen farscape can do.

There is an automatic resentment cause you take it personally that a low vote goes against a SHOW you like. This isn't YOUR art. You had nothing to do with its creation. If you got killed in a DUI tommorrow it would have no effect on the show.

A person who votes his opinion is automatically discriminated against if he votes lower than YOUR average. I don't blame anyone if they don't want to go through this. I can easily see why a person would vote and stay silent.

[McC]

There's a difference between voting low because you mean it and voting low just to be a troll, as I suspect the previous low votes have been. I don't know if you're aware, but every single vote here for every episode we've polled for has included one vote that has been ridiculously low compared to the average. This person has never come forward, never commented, which leads me to believe that they're just being a pain in the ass.

Alternately, yes, I do think you're obligated to share your opinions when your vote does not coincide with the majority. You obviously feel very differently. We're not saying that based on how effectively you argue your point we'll give your vote merit; we're saying that by offering any support (or even taking credit) for your vote, when it is so different from the general consensus, legitimizes it instead of relegating it to the status of a "troll vote."

[farscaper]

that's what I mean!

You are a troll until you prove yourself innocent.

That very attitude discourages people who don't think exactly like you. :p

There is a definite bias here against "average people"

[McC]

No, you're innocent by taking credit for it at all. You can vote 4 and say nothing more than, "Eh, I didn't really like it." That's enough. Just so we know you're not just trying to be a pain in the ass.

And as for a bias against average, welcome to the world at large. It's a trend you'll find just about everywhere, unfortunately.

[farscaper]

because others do it is a bad excuse to do it here.

You might get others to speak up more if you didn't automatically treat dissenters like trolls. it makes for a lousy first impression.

A low vote simply means someone didn't like the show as much as you.

[Artemis]

Most of the posters here have been here since the beginning and when the poll for each episode was set up it was for people to rate the show and say why. We used to have a less formalized critique of each episode. That is why a vote without an explanation is frowned upon. Personally I don't vote till I have time to say something and I feel others probably do the same thing. Please don't take it personally, we definitely are not "average people" in fact we are all kind of weird but there is always room for more.

On to "Twice Shy", I think it was strong in the character development aspect and was a bit more classic scifi, the alien threatening the crew sort of story. It was not as fun as some of the episodes but I also haven't watched it a second time to catch the one-liners I may have missed. The right hook analogy is right on, when Scorpy came on the com after Aeryn accused John of just being paranoid, and we know he has been before, was great. The look on her face that 'hey, he is right', wow. Noranti is becoming more important in each episode, something tells me she plays a pivotal role in whatever surprises they have in store for us.

[Vertigo1]

Originally posted by farscaper
because others do it is a bad excuse to do it here.

You might get others to speak up more if you didn't automatically treat dissenters like trolls. it makes for a lousy first impression.

A low vote simply means someone didn't like the show as much as you.

You're missing the point entirely. Someone has consistantly been voting very low just to piss us off. We don't mind people that vote lower than we do as long as we know why. We won't cruicify you if you say "I just didn't like this ep so I give it a 2." We just want to have a reason WHY someone voted that low because it DOES offend us when someone does it and doesn't back it up. Like it or not, behavior like that is just flat out rude.

[Mike]

Ok, this argument is going in a circle. My policy as the administrator of the forum is to allow every vote to count regardless of the popular trend. Unless things are strangely out of wack, such as 10 "1" votes and not a single negative comment then I'd confront the issue by axing the erroneous votes. I don't see anything particularly unusual about one or two off-votes. As long as the votes are visible, people can make their own judgement on the pattern. This isn't an exact science. I see no need to change our policey, I just shrug my shoulders at that mysterious silent voter. Everyone is entitled to their vote.

But you have to understand that an off-vote is suspicious when nobody has ever claimed one of those votes. We just assume they are hiding, a curious thing to do on a discussion forum. This is their opportunity to add something different to the discussion. I REALLY want to debate Farscape, I don't want a love-fest all the time. When I was running the Subspace Relay, I debated EVERYTHING until I was blue in the face ;).

In conclusion, all votes will stand, as they've alwasy been. We just ask that every vote is honest.

[Vertigo1]

Originally posted by Mike
When I was running the Subspace Relay, I debated EVERYTHING until I was blue in the face ;).

I can attest to that, hense the first couple of lines in my signature. ;)

[Vertigo1]

Ok, who add the new ;) smilie? Bring back the old one dammit! :p This new one sucks.

[Mike]

Don't look at me! :p

[Lumikko]

I liked a lot about this episode, but there was also a lot that I didn't like, and in the end I voted a bit lower than I usually do, and gave it a "7." John and Aerin getting back together, even on the sly, was terrific, and so was seeing Chiana realize that she had indeed, lost something. But the "monster" that comes on board and threatens to kill the crew and take over the ship is 1) so old school sci fi (but at least it wasn't a glowing light or a vapour cloud) and 2) something that they had already done, and done better (with T'ralltixx, for one).

I just knew Scorpy had to have some serious ulterior motive for sticking around. There couldn't be two conversions from Peacekeeper baddie to self-sacrificing Moyaite (Artemis suggested the name).

I agree with Mike that this episode was a good one for new viewers. You didn't really have to know the score up to this point, and the show emphasized strengths of the main characters, then showed what a loser John would be without his optimism and drive to succeed. It was a great character development episode; I just wished they had done it other than in a "monster of the week" format.

[Rhade]

Thanks for the welcome, Mike.

Originally posted by Mike
Please feel free to intervene in our love fest from time to time ;).

I'll keep that in mind, but I don't think I'm the right guy for that... I fully expect to enjoy every remaining episode! :D

Rhade

[Mike]

As do I!

[McC]

Well, I'm late this week, but Thursday has passed, which means voting on the episode rating is officially closed! The results are below and also available at the usual place at The Official 3DG FarScape Forums Episode Ratings Guide (http://www.mcc3d.com/farscape).

"Twice Shy" didn't break any records, but it was a fairly solid episode overall, garnering a 7.86. 14 people voted once again voted on "Twice Shy," tying with last week's record-breaking number of voters. The Median and Mode ratings for this episode were 8. The seasonal average to this point is 7.86. The average number of voters for the season has increased to 11.

Straight Stats
Overall Avg. Rating: 7.86
Number of Voters: 14
Current Ranking: 7
Season Avg. Rating: 7.86
Season Avg. Voters: 11

Enjoy! :)

[Mike]

Excellent work Ryan!