"Children of Dune"

[Mike]

Is anybody watching?

I happen to be a big fan of the original miniseries, so I was highly anticipating the sequel. So is anybody watching?

I can't say I'm disappointed by the sequel, but there isn't as much there as the first. There aren't as many elements and locations to the story as in the first. And the actor shuffle between the two miniseries has really spoiled much of the character consistency that is absolutely necessary to make the history of the story relevent. It becomes an intelletual exercise to imagine how everybody would have been played had the actors from the first been carried over, and vice versa.

However, I'm finding the story to be masterfully told and every bit as interesting as Lord of the Rings.

[McC]

It sickens the hell out of me that Sci-Fi claims they don't have the money to back FarScape, yet they have the money to run these one-shot miniseries. My dad is watching it as he does work on the couch, but I have no interest in giving Sci-Fi ratings (yeah, I know, I'm not part of a Nielsen family so it's meaningless anyway :tongue: ) that they do not deserve. FarScape is too good a home for them, and there's clearly no hope of a revival for FarScape there. FarScape was the reason SFC got anywhere, in my opinion. That they've betrayed it is a sign that they should crash and burn a horrible death. :no:

[Arrghman]

It's not that SFC doesn't have the money to back up Farscape... its that they weren't willing to spend that much based on the ratings. There's a big difference... its not a claim that they couldn't, it was a business decision.

Now, I see watching Children of Dune as a good thing for two reasons. First, I'm enjoying it ;) And second, it's positive reinforcement for Scifi. Here they are, claiming that people don't want "traditional" scifi... and Dune is about as traditional as you can get in terms of what the public thinks of when they think of Scifi. If Dune gets good ratings and things like The Dream Team, Tremors and Scare Tactics fail, that's a much bigger message then any letter writing campagin can give.

[Thomas P]

First, I agree completely with Arrghman on the message that would be sent if CofD does very well while this other crap does not. I also look forward to Riverworld and hope that it too does well.

As to '..watching it?' - YEP! Big Herbert fan but hated the previous movies. The SciFi Dune movie was excellent when one considers the scope of the book and I think John Harrison has done a great job. So far I have enjoyed Children, and again, when one condisers it is the synthesis of the two books that followed Dune.

I was disappointed that the two key characters (Lady Jessica and Stilgar) were replaced though the actors they signed are very good. Steven Berkoff as Stilgar is very good and would have been a good choice for the first movie. All-in-all it has been fun so far.

[Mike]

I'm in agreement that the success of CoD sends a powerful message to Sci-Fi. However, while it's quite possible to do another Dune miniseries, I fear the bureacracy at Sci-Fi would prevent it.

And yes, the actor shuffle has been a significant negative, however they are all good actors, especially Steven Berkoff. I think Saskia Reeves was a much better "Jessica", Alice Krige isn't quite as multi-dimentional.

None-the-less, the 2nd movie has done an even better job at realizing the scope and size of the entire Dune story. To me, it's every bit as entertaining as "LOTR".

[Kakaze]

I can't understand half of the movie. I guess because I never read the books I'm in the dark. There are too many things going on that make me say "what the ****?" Like all the "my skin is not my own" crap and the "golden path." It all reminds me of the existentialist garbage I had to read when I took philosophy.

[Mike]

I understand most of it quite well, not because I read the books, but because I'm a fan of the original minseries and have come to understand the language of the mythology. So it's much easier to understand and appreciate the meaning of vague concepts. It's far more interesting to me to have a story told in a way that makes us seek the meaning, because we know it's there to be found.

[Kakaze]

I liked the original miniseries, but that don't mean it holds all the answers to the new one.

The new one seems to've trampled over everything that the original one was built on.

Muad'dib is a saviour and hero in the original, but in the new one he is an evil conqueror...come on, that's not consistant. They didn't even set it up for him to become the evil conqueror.

There were some hints in the original, but all of that could've been just to show how dedicated he was to defeating the Harkonnen and freeing Arrakis.

[Thomas P]

Yeah, I think Alice Krige makes a better Borg :D but I like her as Jessica. I would agree though that Saskia was much better.

I don't think that having not read the books distracts that much from the tele-film and a lot of effort was put in by John Harrison to adapt the book for television. It is true that, like Dune's persistent plots within plots, the novels are books within books. My first attempt at Dune was when I was 12 and it took me 3 years to get it done :D.

[Mike]

Kakaze, they did set up the backlash to the legend of Mua'dib in the beginning when his army is on a distant planet, killing and being killed in his name. They are outraged, especially now that their world is changing and they are losing more than they've gained. Paul realizes what has happened, and what he has set in motion must end in a 'creative' manner. So that's basically what this story is about, the ending of an idealistic dream. The rise and fall of an empire, the natural course of history. For me, it has been a fascinating story and told quite well, if not always performed terribly well in the 2nd part.

[Artemis]

Originally posted by Kakaze
The new one seems to've trampled over everything that the original one was built on.
Muad'dib is a saviour and hero in the original, but in the new one he is an evil conqueror...come on, that's not consistant. They didn't even set it up for him to become the evil conqueror.


On the contrary, CoD shows that there is a fine line between savior and conqueror and once the things were set in motion Paul lost control. He did not become evil, it was the religion that grew around him that was corrupting his followers and leading them away from the freedom he fought to get for them. He could see what was to come but he could not control it and did not want to make the sacrifice that his son ultimately makes. That is where the phase "my skin is not my own" comes in. In order to save Arrakis and all mankind he must become Shai-Hulud, the great worm, which will lead into the next book, The God Emperor. That sacrifice sets mankind on the Golden Path, the future that Paul and Leto saw in their visions.

[Krystal]

Originally posted by Arrghman

Now, I see watching Children of Dune as a good thing for two reasons. First, I'm enjoying it ;) And second, it's positive reinforcement for Scifi. Here they are, claiming that people don't want "traditional" scifi... and Dune is about as traditional as you can get in terms of what the public thinks of when they think of Scifi. If Dune gets good ratings and things like The Dream Team, Tremors and Scare Tactics fail, that's a much bigger message then any letter writing campagin can give.

Yeah! Totally agree with this. I have to say that I watch Children of Dune and totally love it. It was a great production and have me interested from beginning to end. And I totally agree that if we give the message that productions like this, Taken, SG1, Farscape and Galactica do the right way not the way their plan to do it could mean a winning strike to scifi with old fans and new fans because are programs of quality and so much possibilites. So I hope Scare Tactics, and Tremors , Dream Team fail to get them the ratings because it will prove that what new and old fans want is programs like the ones mention. That way maybe they will begin to hear the fans and not work against them. :evil:

I'm new to Dune, I watch Children because the ads were so interesting. Now I totally like it, probably will begin to look for the books it really looks interesting. :)

Krystal :rose:

[Kakaze]

Originally posted by Artemis
...He could see what was to come but he could not control it and did not want to make the sacrifice that his son ultimately makes. That is where the phase "my skin is not my own" comes in. In order to save Arrakis and all mankind he must become Shai-Hulud, the great worm, which will lead into the next book, The God Emperor. That sacrifice sets mankind on the Golden Path, the future that Paul and Leto saw in their visions.


It would've been nice if they'd actually said that. I didn't know what the hell was going on.

[Arrghman]

Originally posted by Kakaze



It would've been nice if they'd actually said that. I didn't know what the hell was going on.

Well that would be boring :p

[Artemis]

Talking with people that watched it and hadn't read the books it does seem that a lot was unclear to them. Having been a huge Dune fan for so many years and read the books many times I have a ingrained understanding of what is going on and what is to come which made understanding it much easier. I think that may be the biggest difficulty in bringing this series to the screen, it is so indepth and has so many levels that it can't survive editing without loss of comprehension. Combining books 2 and 3 for CoD may not have been a good choice either.

[Arrghman]

I didn't have a problem understanding things... just about everything I got, or at least got enough to enjoy the plot. After trying to figure out Scorpius' motivations for the past 3 years, this is easy ;)

I actually enjoyed CoD enough to finally go and start reading Dune :)

[Artemis]

Originally posted by Arrghman

I actually enjoyed CoD enough to finally go and start reading Dune :)

good for you, I think you will enjoy it. :D

[Arrghman]

From what I've read so far, I know I will :D

I've wanted to read it for a long time... along with a whole bunch of other stuff... there just aren't enough hours in the day!

[Lumikko]

It's been my second favourite book (series), after LOTR, ever since I first read it in the 8th grade, not quite the 12 of Thomas, but close. What was cool back then, was having a hero my age who basically conquered the universe. What was difficult was trying to explain it to a class full of 8th graders, since I used it as a book report book. I didn't have any problems with the book, but no one in the class could understand what I was talking about!

As a side plug, anybody who likes Dune and CCGs, there was a Dune CCG released several years ago that died an untimely death, but has been resurrected as a PBEM game. It's a bit complicated as CCGs go, but you don't actually need to buy cards, and there are full spoiler lists. Check it out at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/duneccg/. There are games starting on a regular basis, and several of the game masters (you need someone to randomize and deal your cards, and who coordinated things) periodically run games for newbies. And yes, if you're wondering, I usually play the Harkonnens! (He says, referring to being Scorpius in ClanFarscape)