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Mike
February 17th, 2003, 08:51 PM
Due to recent concerns regarding the voting conflicts in the episode discussion forum, the administrators would like to make the following policy announcement.


Recently, there has been a great deal of consternation regarding the episode voting system. More specifically, concern was expressed regarding the urging of voters to take credit for their votes. Now, 3D Gladiators intentionally uses an anonymous voting system. It allows people to vote honestly without fear of retribution from their peers here on the boards. However, in the case of discussing varied thoughts on episodes, that anonymity can become problematic. Many have suggested simply disregarding episode votes that are not claimed by a forum member. This, however, violates the spirit of the anonymous vote. What, then, can be done to provide an anonymous voting environment, while still ensuring that each vote is a genuine opinion, and not simply a disruptive individual's attempt to create problems?

The current system of voting in Connecticut uses a method that might help this situation. I suspect this voting system is consistent in many states, or at least largely similar. When an individual votes, their name is crossed off of a list, and then they proceed to a voting booth to vote in privacy. In this way, their vote is accounted for without calling upon them to publicly divulge their vote. Similarly, I would suggest that we institute a system wherein people are required to at least declare that they have voted, if they do not wish to share their thoughts on an episode. They do not have to say what they voted, simply that they have, so that the number of voters that declare that they have voted and the number of total votes will match come Thursday, when the polls are officially supposed to close.

This will call upon all members, present and future, to be responsible enough to at least post briefly to declare that they have voted. No inquiries will be made as to what the vote was, should the member not choose to share their thoughts. The administrative and moderator staff will try to maintain this fairness. Naturally, at any time a member can waive the right to anonymity and share with the group what they voted.

Should the number of voters who claim to have voted and the final number of votes not tally, I will eliminate the most non-consensual votes until the numbers match. While this may short-change some people, it will ultimately lead to a more accurate (hopefully) reflection of actual public opinion on our board. I do not suggest these measures lightly and I hope that these measures to not dissuade potential new members from joining, voting, and participating in discussion. On the contrary, I hope that this will ultimately foster more communication and sharing of views on the episodes of what is truly the greatest science fiction television show of all time...at least for as long as we have it to cherish.

Darrell Lawrence
February 17th, 2003, 09:03 PM
That sounds very good, Mike.

I'd like to mention to the voters that it would be a *courtesy*, not a requirement, to mention *why* you voted the way you did.

That is what makes discussion.

I agree in that unaccounted for votes should (and will be!) removed after the polls close.

Darrell Lawrence
February 17th, 2003, 09:05 PM
...oh, and I also want to mention that if a person votes and comments different than someone else, there should be *no* fighting over the issue.

Just deal with the fact that someone else has a different opinion, and leave it at that.

And also remember that Farscape is its own show. It's not Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, Star Wars or Lost in Space or any other show other than Farscape :)

Mike
February 17th, 2003, 09:17 PM
Thanks for your support Darrell. Although we should give credit to Ryan for all the work he's done in resolving the problem, including writing up this policy.

Darrell Lawrence
February 17th, 2003, 09:20 PM
Indeed. Other than one minor gaf he did today in trying to resolve the issue, he did a mighty fine job.

McC
February 17th, 2003, 09:33 PM
Thanks, guys :blush:

Just trying to do my job. :cop:

moovok
February 18th, 2003, 11:28 AM
No offence, but why is not disclosing who's voted be a problem? We all have one vote each, whether to use it or not. We decide our personal views on the episode, and rate it 1-10.

Why do we need to disclose if we've voted or not?

Darrell Lawrence
February 18th, 2003, 11:33 AM
You *don't* need to disclose if you *didn't* vote.

Only if you *did* vote.

Keeps the voting fair and a bit more precise.

moovok
February 18th, 2003, 03:09 PM
But *why* do we need to disclose if we voted.

The vote's are fair, we all have 1 vote each. Why do we need to say "Hey, yer, I voted, btw" as well? That's my question.

McC
February 18th, 2003, 03:26 PM
To prevent shadow voting. Plain and simple.

Vertigo1
February 18th, 2003, 08:05 PM
moovok: The reason being that we've had a troll come in and has always given episodes really low votes without any kind of explanation. We don't know who it is, so thats why we've been asking that if someone votes lower, that they atleast say why. Its not that we disagree with the vote, we just like to know WHY that person didn't like the episode.

McC
February 18th, 2003, 08:08 PM
Troll is the incorrect term to use in this case, Vertigo. After a bit of deliberation, the better term to use is "shadow voter." We do now know who it is, but I'm not at liberty to talk about it further, and the issues surrounding this particular shadow voter have been taken care of. "Troll" is more of an insulting term, and it's actually fairly inaccurate for the kind of situation we're talking about.

Spiller
February 19th, 2003, 10:38 AM
just a question, a couple of times i've voted high, but haven't said what i voted cos i had no reason to post, if i do the same in future, are you actually gonna look at the logs and minus the vote of everyone who voted but didn't post? or just count up the numbers and reduce it from the average or something?

just curious, i'd prefer not to have to disclose any reasons why i voted, but if this is what you have to do, i've no objections...

moovok
February 19th, 2003, 12:28 PM
Spiller is sorta reading my brain. I vote for an episode of Farscape, when I've watched it. If I have something constructive to say, I usually do, if I don't, I rarely say it.

Now, with a low vote, I would say you have to at least have something constructive, ie "GOD WHAT A LOAD OF OLD RUBBISH. MY GRANDMA COULD HAVE WRITTEN A BETTER SCAPE SCRIPT THAN THAT!" But with a high vote, what do you say, "YEP, GREAT, ANOTHER GOOD ONE. KEEP ON GOING!"

If you know who's doing it, why make us all disclose we've voted, if we have nothing really important to say?

McC
February 19th, 2003, 12:29 PM
The point of this new policy is not (everybody hear that? :D not) to have people disclose their vote.

The 3DG poll system is set up such that even the Administrators cannot determine who voted what. All we're asking is that people say that they have, in fact, voted. They don't have to say what they voted or why if they don't want to (although we'd much prefer this, as these are discussion forums). However, if at the end of the day, the number of votes and the number of people who say they've voted do not correspond, I will begin discounting votes on either extreme end of the spectrum (starting with most extreme, based on the majority of votes). So in order to get the most clear picture of what the general consensus on the FarScape's episode's rating here was, it's in your best interest to stand up and be counted. :)

McC
February 19th, 2003, 12:39 PM
Moovok, you're still operating under the idea that you need to comment on the episode. You don't. All we're asking for are a pair of brief clicks and a message saying, "I voted." That's it. You don't have to comment on the ep if you have nothing specific to add or constructive to say, and your comments certainly don't have to reflect your vote ("I voted," again, is very vague and doesn't suggest what you've voted one way or another). We are trying to account for the number of votes, not who voted for what. Technically speaking, I could go in and alter the entire poll to remove any votes I disagreed with and give every episode the ranking I think it should get, but I don't because that, aside from being wrong, is rigging the vote. Similarly, this is to attempt to prevent vote rigging, shadow voting, etc.

Mike
February 19th, 2003, 07:38 PM
Don't expect us to be counting each vote, this is a precautionary measure so that when a problem does occur, we have an agreement with the community that we can change problematic votes. Such a disclaimer would have prevented the problems we had with the 'shadow voter'.

moovok
February 20th, 2003, 11:38 AM
McC: It's just, if I have nothing to comment about an episode, I don't really want to just type a post saying "I voted." Seems lame, imo. I'd rather just leave it like that, vote, read people's opinions, and if I have nothing to comment, leave it like that, without having to automatically after voting say "I voted."

Can't you alter the BBS so that it logs "WHO" votes but not "WHAT" they vote. Saves people like myself (if there is such a person) that don't really want to just type a post that says "I Voted."

That's all I'm trying to say.

McC
February 20th, 2003, 11:50 AM
Unfortunately, the system isn't set up that way. I've already checked this avenue, as it would be the easiest (for the general populace, at least). I'm sorry if these measures are inconvenient, but unless a better alternative arises... :/:

Darrell Lawrence
February 20th, 2003, 03:45 PM
I've yet to see a poll system anywhere that logs who voted but not for what they voted on.

If you know where on is, point me to it please.

Akiela Xal
March 23rd, 2003, 02:30 PM
Guys...what's with all the pointless bickering? I do agree that it's a silly idea to have to go into the forum and post "I voted," but thems the rules. I'll do it - even though the series is supposedly over now. Personally, I'd prefer the idea of just having a discussion forum. You express your opinions one way or the other. If you want to have a "poll" count up the "original" opinions one way or the other (ie: like/dislike) and leave it at that... just an idea. :)