Lightwave Modeling Question

Hey guys,

I'm trying to work with the Modeler part of Lightwave and I wanted to learn by creating something familiar to me. So I figured I'd try my hand at a TOS connie.

I have the saucer section looking pretty good but I'm hitting a bit of a wall and need to ask for some help.

I'm trying to build the section of the saucer where the bridge parts go and I am not getting the results I want. I've tried a couple of methods but they're coming out like dog poop. So I figured I ask around here and see what the LWO gurus have to say! :laugh:

Here are a few shots of what I have so far.
I know they're not great but this is only the 2nd mesh I've attempted to build in Lightwave (the last was a TOS viper that I got bored with).

So thanks and all that stuff.

[evil_genius_180]

Great model to start with. She's a classic and, as far as Trek models go, not super challenging, though there are a few parts that give us fits. I dunno anything about Lightwave (besides that it rocks) but I always make the part under the bridge in trueSpace by starting with a simple sphere and deforming the back. I have no idea if that helps at all. (I'm assuming you were talking about the teardrop-shaped B-C deck structure.)

Nice start, BTW.

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by evil_genius_180

but I always make the part under the bridge in trueSpace by starting with a simple sphere and deforming the back. I have no idea if that helps at all. (I'm assuming you were talking about the teardrop-shaped B-C deck structure.)

Nice start, BTW.

DIDO .. that how I would do it ... having said that I have never built the Enterprise.. but let me think on it as see what I can come up with

Thanks for the info and doubly so for the compliment - I know you're both excellent modelers, so thanks again.

Yes, it's the tear shape part that is giving me some grief.
I've tried building it from a box with deformers and rounders but it didn't look good and I've tried it with points to polygons and that was flat out awful. I did try a sphere cut in half and deformed but my deformation sucked.

I'll try a few more times with the deformed sphere and see what I can come up with.
Who knows, perhaps with some cosmic luck I'll be able to build this thing, texture it and upload it here.

Oh, on a side note - last night's CSI episode had a Trek thing going on and there were cameos by people from the other new space themed show that was on scifi. It was a fantastic episode for fans of either of the scifi shows. I'll bet you can find the episode online via torrent if you live in an area that does not air it. I DVR'd it and I'm glad I did - it was way funny.

[gmd3d]

Originally Posted by Fretslayer

Thanks for the info and doubly so for the compliment - I know you're both excellent modelers, so thanks again.

Yes, it's the tear shape part that is giving me some grief.
I've tried building it from a box with deformers and rounders but it didn't look good and I've tried it with points to polygons and that was flat out awful. I did try a sphere cut in half and deformed but my deformation sucked.

I'll try a few more times with the deformed sphere and see what I can come up with.

Forget the BOX go with the sphere/ball tool give it plenty of segments and sides before you cut .. using the "n" which give you the numeric ball tool options .. .. create it and cut it in half from the bottom where you have the top saved

then highlight half of the remaining top (from your top view so that your looking down on it ..) then use your stretch tool. place the mouse Icon in the centre of the top ball and pressing down the Ctrl on your keyboard stretch the highlighted segments back..

look then at the side view and you see that it too high so using the stretch too again on the full top placing the mouse along the bottom line and by moving the mouse down the top should flatten a bit

I hope this is useful

[evil_genius_180]

Originally Posted by Fretslayer

Yes, it's the tear shape part that is giving me some grief.
I've tried building it from a box with deformers and rounders but it didn't look good and I've tried it with points to polygons and that was flat out awful. I did try a sphere cut in half and deformed but my deformation sucked.

That part is one of the challenging parts to which I was referring. It's no picnic and took me many versions to get right (of course, most of the earlier versions were without forums to ask for help.) The one on the movie ship is even more fun.

Originally Posted by Fretslayer

Oh, on a side note - last night's CSI episode had a Trek thing going on and there were cameos by people from the other new space themed show that was on scifi. It was a fantastic episode for fans of either of the scifi shows. I'll bet you can find the episode online via torrent if you live in an area that does not air it. I DVR'd it and I'm glad I did - it was way funny.

The best part for me was seeing the chick from the DNA lab in all those '60s style skimpy outfits. Other than that, I didn't care for it much (though it might have been a bit prophetic, given how some fans are reacting to the new Star Trek movie. ) I love Star Trek and I love CSI and I even loved the idea of having a murder at a Sci-Fi convention and maybe a few Trek and other Sci-Fi refs, but I thought they carried it a bit far, which is what made me not like it. But, that's just my opinion. :cylon:

On a CSI note - I thought it was funny how people were angry with the new guy for 'ruining' their favorite child hood show. It reminded me very much of a debate that took place with 'a different show' - In fact, the woman who was the badguy was from that other show. In the crowd of 'angry fans' were not only Rekha Sharma and Grace Park...but the guy who yelled 'You Suck!' was that guy who was the writer for that other show. I thought was a nice commentary on how some people reacted to an updated version of a classic scifi tv show.

And as for 'Wendy the Lab Rat' --- She can be quite the cutie!
Believe it or not, I used to know her way back in the day.
She hit on me back in high school and I was too slow in the head to figure it out at the time. I look back on it now and I kick myself in bean bag! Man, I could'a had that! LOL!

I feel like Gedde Watanabe is screaming at me 'Yooou so stoooopid!' LOL!

Thanks for the info on building that part of the ship.
I'm going to give it a go and see how it comes out.
I thought at worst I would make a sphere, cut the bottom off and then cut the top in half. This way I only had a few points to deal with and once I had it shaped, I could just clone that half and mirror it. That might be a bad idea though.

I'll go with your suggestions and if I can do it well enough, I'll post an updated shot or two.

I'm really looking forward to doing the hull because I've read from a few sources that it's a real pain in the wazoo. Sounds like a good challenge to me.

[evil_genius_180]

Originally Posted by Fretslayer

On a CSI note - I thought it was funny how people were angry with the new guy for 'ruining' their favorite child hood show. It reminded me very much of a debate that took place with 'a different show' - In fact, the woman who was the badguy was from that other show. In the crowd of 'angry fans' were not only Rekha Sharma and Grace Park...but the guy who yelled 'You Suck!' was that guy who was the writer for that other show. I thought was a nice commentary on how some people reacted to an updated version of a classic scifi tv show.

Yeah, I thought of BSG also. What I don't get about the fanboys (and girls) that bitch about this stuff is that they don't realize that there's a simple solution: DON'T WATCH IT! Damn, that's all there is to it. I don't always like remakes and I either watch them once or not at all, depending on if they even look remotely good.

Originally Posted by Fretslayer

And as for 'Wendy the Lab Rat' --- She can be quite the cutie!
Believe it or not, I used to know her way back in the day.
She hit on me back in high school and I was too slow in the head to figure it out at the time. I look back on it now and I kick myself in bean bag! Man, I could'a had that! LOL!

I think she's the hottest chick on the show (besides the lovely Marg Helgenberger, of course.) I have since she took over the DNA lab. Though, the chick that plays Riley is pretty hot also.

You used to know her, eh? And you could have "known" her even better. Don't worry, I think most guys have had that happen to them at least once. I used to work at a university (nothing glamorous, I worked in one of the chow halls) and they had college students that also worked there to pay for their college needs (the ones that didn't come from money and were there on grants/scholarships.) One of them used to chat me up a lot and it wasn't until after I quit that I realized that she was "interested" in me. (damn it) She was cute, too.

Yah, missed opportunities are a drag but we learn from our mistakes. LOL!

I think you're right on the mark with the fanboy comment.
I spent from around 15 years playing/touring in a professional metal band and I've always been a big fan of '...if it so offends you, just don't listen. Don't watch. Your TV and stereo both have tuners, volume controls and power switches. Nobody forces you to watch or listen to anything that pains you.'

It's really that simple.

As for the CSI chick... The first time I saw her name in the credits of CSI just about fell over. I then had to check online and see if she was from my area and yep... Then it all flooded back to me. LOL!

Well, it's time to make the CG donuts...er, bridge part. LOL!
I think I have an angle on it so we'll see.

And if you guys aren't familiar with Geddie Watanabe... Here's the clip I made reference to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KezvwARhBIc

RE: the bridge part - Thank guys for the help - I just did the sphere w/stretch and it came out perfect! I cannot tell you how happy that makes me. Thanks a lot!

Ok, here's a bit of an update.
It took me a good part of the day to get the rail extrude to work but I finally go it.

So here's where I am so far.

I've been trying to make sure that as I build the parts I prep them for being textured later. I have no clue if I'm doing this right but hey, so far it seems to be working. :laugh:

[evil_genius_180]

It's got a drumstick.

Looks good, dude. Keep working at it, it does get easier with practice (or so they keep telling me.) I'm going to move this thread to the WIP section.

Yah, it's a better place for it now.
But, since I was asking for help it sort of fit in other one at first. LOL!

The drumstick now has cool bits that attach it to the frisbee.
LOL!

[evil_genius_180]

Originally Posted by Fretslayer

Yah, it's a better place for it now.
But, since I was asking for help it sort of fit in other one at first. LOL!

Sure, I understand you were asking for help, that's why you put it in the help zone. However, since then it has taken a WIP-ish turn.

Damn, we're talking about drumsticks and I'm getting even more hungry.

Oh yah, it belongs in this section now. LOL!

It's coming along nicely but I had to turn my attention to the BSG animation I still over Dan over at BattlestarFanFilms.

So, I've rigged up my pilot and he's working just fine, but I'm getting this strange lighting anomaly now. See the bottom of the wings? I can't figure out what is making those parts look like they're glowing. I can make them stop by shutting off the 'Affect Diffuse' setting in the light properties, but of course that makes the scene look flat and dead.

Any ideas what the deal is?
It's only happening when I use this specific Viper mesh.

[gmd3d]

glad it worked out .. I would have added more segments and sides to it. using the numeric tool .. it will useful later when you add detail windows etc .. you are building a design I cannot yet face doing..

modelling so far is first class in LW ..

Originally Posted by Taranis

glad it worked out .. I would have added more segments and sides to it. using the numeric tool .. it will useful later when you add detail windows etc .. you are building a design I cannot yet face doing..

modelling so far is first class in LW ..

Well, should I start over then and have more segments?
I set the numeric value at 80 figuring that would be enough.

[evil_genius_180]

For a saucer section, you usually want at least 100 segments for your outer rim. 100 gives a nice, smooth look. (though I usually go higher) You can go lower for things like the engineering hull, that's where 80 will work nicely. And, since they're so thin, I usually do the nacelles at 64 segments. I used to go way high on everything and wind up with a 200,000+ polygon Constitution-class and that's not necessary. I figured out how to budget and now I can usually get one done in under 100,000.

Fantastic info.
Thanks a lot.
Looks like it's time to scrap this mesh and start over.
This will be v.3
LOL!

Ok, I've started over and this time with 100 sides to my saucer.
I've lathed it a few times already but each time I find a point that's out of place and I get that 'clay wheel' effect so I'm being extra careful with the placing of them.

I honestly do not know if I can pull this off as I am not anywhere near the modeler in LWO that I am in MAX and Hexagon, but if I can do it at least I'll finally have a mesh that I can share with a community that I've borrowed so much from.

And thanks for the links.
I did see the one Trek tut but it's seems to be missing a lot of info.
So I'm going to take some of the stuff I know from MAX and try to use it in LWO and see if I get a simiar result. If I can't manage to pull it off the way I want to, I figure I can always build some parts in MAX and some in LWO and bash the sucker together. LOL!

[gmd3d]

I would start again .. the more the merrier .. "Warrior" has made the Enterprise and would give better advise for a lightwave approach than I would.
as I would building it in Truespace as Chris has .. I would as him ...

here is an old tut for lightwave5.6 but the approach will be the same
http://www.trekmania.net/art/tutorial_1.htm

here is how I did mine .. its not great but its quick

Ok, here's a quick update of V.3.
Like anything else, the more I do it the better I think I am getting at it. LOL!
I like this saucer much better than the first two I made.

Let me know if it looks ok and all of that stuff.
If I have to fix something I don't mind being told about it.

[gmd3d]

looks better

[evil_genius_180]

I can't find anything to nitpick about it so far. You're working with blueprints, so you know you got the shape right. And your wires and rendered images both look good. (man, I love this ship. )

Thanks guys.
You both know I am a big fan of your meshes so compliments and critiques from you are a good thing.

Looking at my v.1 and v.3 I can see how much of a difference the extra sides has made and I think I have a better feel for the lines. I have some really nice blueprints so that makes it much easier. The v.1 had some rather blurry ones and I think it showed.

I remember having a conversation here about sitting in front of the computer and just looking at the 3D app icon and just having a creative/mental block. I guess building this mesh is what is breaking that on me.

On a non-CG note, one of my guitarist and I have been talking about building a 4-6' balsa wood model of the TOS Enterprise and rigging it up with a bunch of LEDs to illuminate in the insides of the rooms and for the warp engines. Odds are it'll take a year or so to build but it should be pretty cool. If we do end up doing it, I'll place a couple of cameras around the garage and take pix with them (from the same spots) to follow the progress and eventually make a little video clip of it being built in time lapse.
But that plan is still a bit on the 'maybe' table.

[gmd3d]

then you should have a look at this site
http://resinilluminati.com/

Fantastic!
Thanks for the link

[gmd3d]

no prob ..

[evil_genius_180]

Funny, I usually have the mental blocks about building, not rendering. Sometimes rendering images gets me back in the swing of things (sometimes not.)

The wood model sounds awesome. You guys should go for it.

Ok here's another update.
Probably the last one I post today.
I'll keep working on it but until I have the engineering section put together or something on this mesh needs to be adjusted I'll wait before I post any thing else.

So far, I kind of diggin on this thing.
LWO (IMO) seems (so far) to be a more intuitive modeling tool than is MAX.

[evil_genius_180]

From what I've heard and seen on DVD special features and in magazines, Lightwave is da shiznit. Of course, some feel that way about Max. I'm sure they both have their strong and weak points, as any software does.

That's looking really good, dude. The bottom sensor thingy (the "boob" ) might be a little too deep/tall, whatever you want to call it (the dome looks too big) but that's the only issue I see.

You're spot on with the bottom sensor dome.
I forgot to place it before I took the screen shots.

As far as the MAX VS. LWO thing - I don't know really.
I guess if you're a master of either then that one is the best one... but for somebody like myself who is self taught, ease of use is paramount.

There are some things I can do in MAX that I cannot (yet) do in Lightwave and so I have to fight the temptation to revert back to what I know. Half of my brain is saying 'You're doing this so you can learn something about modeling in Lightwave.' and the other half is saying 'You're doing this so you can build your own Trek mesh. As long as it loads easily and looks great, who cares what apps it was built in?'.

Yeah, my brain fights itself. LOL!
At least I know regardless of who loses, I still win.

Using MAX I've done a lot of animations for my friends but all in all, I think that Lightwave is going to be a much better program. But again, it's all a matter of the hands using the tools. I'm sure there are people who can do wonders with either program.

I was learning MAX until I found Dennis Bailey's 1701-A and that was it - I was instantly wanting to use Lightwave. That and seeing the quality of effects in some scifi shows which used it for their space combat animations.

Oh, one thing that I really like about LWO over MAX is that in MAX if you want a good glow effect you have to render to 'video post' and in Lightwave you don't have to do that step.