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Old July 22nd, 2011, 03:48 PM   #241
tnpir4001
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Default Re: Star Trek: Retribution

@evil_genius: it just seems like it's too long for one scene, is all I wanted to make sure that there wasn't any "fat" on this one if I could avoid it. This scene is mostly to answer the questions the audience had, I was trying to explain everything but I wanted to make sure the focus wasn't on things that weren't of interest.

As for Cargo Bay Six...read this at your own peril Big spoilers ahead:
Spoiler
Yes and no...remember how a key plot point of Specter was that Garr made a female android, which he then programmed with a scan of his own mind. In the first film, the reason was for this android to take the place of the real Kristie in his life, only this time she'd have an instinctive grasp of how he thought and therefore could anticipate his needs perfectly.

It's all going to come out that when he was catapulted decades into the past, he was so enraged after what happened--looking into the mirror and seeing what he felt was a worse monster than ever after the Borg nanoprobes finished their work--that there was no way he could continue to look at the image he'd created of what started it all. And so, he ejected her out an airlock, where the vacuum of space preserved her perfectly, until Section 31 discovered her years later.

By the time she was brought to the Fitzgerald for this foray into Romulan space, Section 31 had found a way to extract the scan that Garr did--which we'll find out happened only hours before the Fitzgerald arrived at Beta Reticuli IV, seems even after Garr changed his plan to one of time travel, he intended to take her back with him after all--and transfer it into a holomatrix. That holomatrix--along with a now fully-completed android, in stasis--are down in the cargo bay. The holographic "good Garr" has been giving Reyf information all along, trying to help him predict what Drakus might do at any given time, which is how Reyf made some of the leaps of logic that he did, which in turn led to things like the adjustment of the plasma grid.
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Old July 22nd, 2011, 07:41 PM   #242
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Default Re: Star Trek: Retribution

Yeah, no fat in the scene at all, IMO. It was all meaty goodness to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tnpir4001 View Post
Spoiler
Yes and no...remember how a key plot point of Specter was that Garr made a female android, which he then programmed with a scan of his own mind. In the first film, the reason was for this android to take the place of the real Kristie in his life, only this time she'd have an instinctive grasp of how he thought and therefore could anticipate his needs perfectly.

It's all going to come out that when he was catapulted decades into the past, he was so enraged after what happened--looking into the mirror and seeing what he felt was a worse monster than ever after the Borg nanoprobes finished their work--that there was no way he could continue to look at the image he'd created of what started it all. And so, he ejected her out an airlock, where the vacuum of space preserved her perfectly, until Section 31 discovered her years later.

By the time she was brought to the Fitzgerald for this foray into Romulan space, Section 31 had found a way to extract the scan that Garr did--which we'll find out happened only hours before the Fitzgerald arrived at Beta Reticuli IV, seems even after Garr changed his plan to one of time travel, he intended to take her back with him after all--and transfer it into a holomatrix. That holomatrix--along with a now fully-completed android, in stasis--are down in the cargo bay. The holographic "good Garr" has been giving Reyf information all along, trying to help him predict what Drakus might do at any given time, which is how Reyf made some of the leaps of logic that he did, which in turn led to things like the adjustment of the plasma grid.
Spoiler
Kristy was the other thing I thought may have been down there, though I was starting to suspect that it might be Garr isntead. I guess it's both. Very interesting. You certainly know how to write interesting plot twists.
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Old July 23rd, 2011, 04:46 AM   #243
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Default Re: Star Trek: Retribution

To be honest I don´t read the Spoilers... I just enjoy watching the vids and seen the character going through the motions
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Old July 23rd, 2011, 06:32 AM   #244
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@Taranis: nothing wrong with that just means you get the full benefit of surprises when they come. And there are quite a few coming up in the next few scenes!
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Old July 24th, 2011, 03:48 PM   #245
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Scene 36 is up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8G9auJ2UY0

Scene 37, "Reyf Tells All," coming soon.
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Old July 24th, 2011, 06:54 PM   #246
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Looking good, dude. I'm looking forward to 37.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 06:25 PM   #247
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@evil_genius: since Scene 37 is going to be the work of probably a full week if not more to make, I thought I'd post a quick preview clip in the meantime: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MxaJidZ4rQ

Enjoy
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Old July 26th, 2011, 07:53 PM   #248
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Yeah, it's a big scene with loads of content, I can see why it will take that long. Thanks for the preview, it's looking good so far.
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Old July 29th, 2011, 03:31 AM   #249
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The first half of the scene is up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqzld8nh4Q4
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Old July 29th, 2011, 12:25 PM   #250
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That's looking great so far.
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Old July 30th, 2011, 12:05 AM   #251
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Full scene is up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u_MfqLcs54

As I predicted, this one's a long one, clocking in at 8:52. Almost nine minutes!
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Old July 30th, 2011, 01:20 AM   #252
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This was great. very nice story telling
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Old July 30th, 2011, 08:59 AM   #253
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Yeah, that's definitely some of your best work. It came out great, I'm glad you didn't trim anything. It may be longish, but it is for a good reason.
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Old July 30th, 2011, 09:57 AM   #254
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I'm particularly eager to hear what everyone thinks of the very end--the bit where they all nod was something I hadn't originally planned on, it just seemed appropriate. What I was going for was Prentice asking, obviously in an unspoken way, for the support of his senior staff, and they all giving it, first Ronston and then the others. Hargrove, naturally, is the last one, but even she does after thinking it over (and that little exchange between Kal and Mitchell strongly implies that their exchange earlier is the reason why).

And the conclusion of the exchange between Prentice and Reyf. Between the way Reyf reacts to Prentice's final question (and in turn, Prentice's reaction to that) and the music, I'm trying to hint at something. Specifically:

Spoiler
That Reyf knows in this timeline, the "good" version of his oldest friend is dead somehow, but that he simply can't bring himself to say it.
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Old July 30th, 2011, 01:22 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnpir4001 View Post
I'm particularly eager to hear what everyone thinks of the very end--the bit where they all nod was something I hadn't originally planned on, it just seemed appropriate. What I was going for was Prentice asking, obviously in an unspoken way, for the support of his senior staff, and they all giving it, first Ronston and then the others. Hargrove, naturally, is the last one, but even she does after thinking it over (and that little exchange between Kal and Mitchell strongly implies that their exchange earlier is the reason why).
Yeah, that was nicely done. They had a few moments like that on the shows, it's always a nice moment.
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Old July 31st, 2011, 07:10 PM   #256
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A quick preview for Scene 38 is up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLIuHCPu_ic

Get ready to have your socks knocked off
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Old July 31st, 2011, 11:20 PM   #257
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But I'm not wearing socks.

Seriously, that's pretty freakin' cool. Thanks for the sneak peek.
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Old August 4th, 2011, 04:29 AM   #258
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Full scene is up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pck-pSYwBho
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Old August 4th, 2011, 10:52 AM   #259
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Ha, that's a cool scene. Just one thing bugs me, though:


Spoiler
"An android replica so perfect that even I couldn't tell the difference."

Couldn't he just look at her hair to tell the difference? I mean, I think the real woman didn't have the net-thing for her hair in the back.
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Old August 4th, 2011, 11:08 AM   #260
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That's a rendering glitch, not a design shortfall on Garr's part Note that her appearance in the "Previously On" sequence at the start of the movie has her with a full ponytail instead of just the framework for one.
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Old August 4th, 2011, 11:27 AM   #261
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Hmm, that's a weird rendering glitch, though not the weirdest I've ever seen. Did you maybe reach the texture limit for your software? (trueSpace will sometimes not render certain textures if the memory is all used)
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Old August 4th, 2011, 11:35 AM   #262
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Basically you nailed it, the ponytail is from Neftis Studios, and it's an extremely high-quality product, but the drawback is that at the settings I routinely use to render shots of the other actors, Poser can't handle it, so it's simply rendered as a wireframe. (Look at the "Previously On" segment at the very beginning of the movie, you'll see a shot of her with the ponytail rendered properly--it's a very short shot but it took north of 30 minutes to render; just as a test, I rendered the pan from Holo Garr to her from Scene 38, and it took almost two hours!)
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Old August 5th, 2011, 08:27 AM   #263
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Nice work in the story ....pity about the glitch
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Old August 5th, 2011, 09:06 AM   #264
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@Taranis: it's not permanent, notice also that the background plate of the corridor in the beginning of the scene is also rendered at ultra-low resolution and the frame rate is off. I had to do that to get in a placeholder, the real plate is still rendering (been going for two days and a half now). While that's finishing up I'm also working on re-rendering the shots with Kristie at their proper resolution. The part where her ponytail swings is particularly impressive--Neftis did a heck of a job when they designed that prop.
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Old August 5th, 2011, 09:10 AM   #265
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Are you rendering some elements separately with an alpha channel and then compositing them together? It seems to me that would be the best way to get past that glitch (though, I know nothing of your software.)
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Old August 5th, 2011, 09:42 AM   #266
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The suite of software I'm using is:
Sets and Props: Bryce 7.1.99
Characters: Poser 7.4
Editing: Ulead Media Studio Pro 7.4

The short answer to your question is, yes. The character animations are rendered in Poser against black, which cues Poser to build in an alpha channel for the black background. My video editor, in turn, is smart enough to pick up that alpha channel, and use it to key in the backgrounds behind the characters. (When the camera moves, the process is a little more complicated and doesn't involve alpha channels, so we won't get into that.)

With the Bryce backgrounds, the workflow is more involved. Bryce doesn't know how to encode an alpha channel into its renders, so whenever I want to use alpha channeling there, I have to render out a separate animation explicitly for alpha-channel purposes. (Anytime you see a door opening, for instance, there are three elements: the "visible" portion, which is just the straight animation of the door opening, the alpha-channel animation that defines where I want the area past the door to be visible, and then the background plate itself.)

The trouble with Kristie's ponytail can't be solved by alpha-channeling. No matter how it's handled, the ponytail prop is still super high-poly, and it's still too much for Poser to handle. Recall that even at the "preview" settings I'm using to render all the other crew animations, animations involving both the high-poly Victoria 3 character, her clothing, and then the ponytail prop, still take a long time to render. At the settings necessary to make the ponytail properly visible, renders can literally take hours (a 258-frame animation--Garr's line about that "she was the symbol of everything he'd lost"--has been rendering for about five hours now, and it's still not done: 233 frames so far, 25 yet to go).
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Old August 5th, 2011, 10:36 AM   #267
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What FPS setting do you use for your animations?
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Old August 5th, 2011, 12:53 PM   #268
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For the most part, 30fps. The only exception is when I want to go for effect (i.e. some of the shots in the "previously on" sequence were 5fps, and the "intelligence footage" Reyf showed of Garr at the start of "Reyf Tells All" was 15fps, and slowed down by 50%).
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Old August 6th, 2011, 03:05 PM   #269
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Next piece is up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzAiNwnkj_A

This is actually a bit of a "hybrid" scene, featuring proper renders of most of the shots of Kristie and animated LCARs displays on the back wall. The main attraction in this clip is at the end, what I think is a super-cool montage sequence showing the crew preparing to implement Prentice's plan.

Enjoy!
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Old August 6th, 2011, 03:32 PM   #270
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Nice work, I like the additions. Gotta like the Independence Day music also.
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